Bid optimization in Pay-Per-Click (PPC) platforms (Google Ads, Amazon, Bing, Yandex)

Have you ever wondered why some PPC specialists get the most out of their campaigns while others can’t get their ads to convert? In many cases, it’s because they are using bid optimization tools for their marketing campaigns. Bidding software is used to optimize bids (how much you’re willing to pay for ad clicks) many times a day. The software bases its decisions on many different data points such as profit, conversion value, and more. In this episode, I am talking with Reza Zadeh from AdSpert (adspert.net) about bid optimization tools, which they provide for Google Ads, Amazon, Bing, and Yandex.

You can signup using promo code adspert2105 and get a longer trial (33 days) ^_^

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[Music]

Artem: Hi guys. It's Artem and it's our podcast episode number one. Today with us, we have AdSpert and we have Reza from AdSpert talking about all the awesome things you can do with their application. And most importantly, what is bid optimization. So thank you very much for joining us.

Reza: Hi Artem. Yes. Thank you so much for having me on this call. So as Artem mentioned, my name is Reza. I'm working with AdSpert. I'm working as an ae in charge of old Europe and Russia. So what is bid optimization tool? This is the most form of the pay digital marketing use in an auction model with advertisers compete against each other to display their ads to a desired audience. So each advertisers nominates a bid that represent the maximum amount of the money that they are willing to pay for auction. So bid optimization can require quite a bit of time and attention with a bid optimization tool like AdSpert, all of the manual elements are removed and managed by sophisticated software that will improve performance and save your time.

Artem: That sounds really, really good. But you know I’m sure some of use AdWords, nowadays called the google ads and, other PPC platforms and they already have some optimization tools, right? I mean, in AdWords, person who maybe wouldn't be doing advertising campaign management every day, he would be like, whoa, there is already maximize clicks, optimization strategy, maximize conversion, maximize conversion values and so forth. So why would I need bid optimization software? Cause obviously that's an additional cost, right? I mean, there is additional cost associated with it. So how are you guys or in general, why bid optimization software, you know, could even be better since you don't have as deep access as google AdWords probably has in its own algorithms and so forth. So what are you able to do better compared to native ways to optimize bids?

Reza: Okay. That's a very good question. So basically, as you mentioned, there are also some other tools on the market, but as far as their like PPC software solutions, we use and take the ai driven, and set the bids for you automatically, which it would suggest new keywords as well, and also gives you valuable insight that you can also use for your campaigns. So beside that as a third party, we just taking care of all your advertising and also budget to be able to have a fully control to see how does the software spent. And on the other hand, you're able to get as much conversions as possible or as much results as possible.

Artem: So if I, kind of ask additional questions, you mentioned that the software could actually even suggest new keywords, right? So, basically maybe you do some data mining and so forth and you say, hey, consider using this keyword.  And then, but can you automate the process? Can it go even further? Can it do some keyword insertion by itself and testing and so forth?

Reza: So yes, basically we have basically two options in our solutions, which helps all the amazon, or like almost on an also google advertisers to select and monitor the keywords that we suggested and added to our software with two clicks, or they can also let software to add it automatically and how we found basically those keywords is based on a, again, some bidding criteria that we set out on the back end to be able to get the relevant keywords, which we are able to increase their conversions, revenue and also profit.

Artem: Yeah. So if we talk about, in general, PPC, auction style-based advertising platforms, obviously the most popular ones are probably, google, google ads, then we have Facebook, we have been, we have other, for example, Russian based Yandex, right. Which is also very popular platform in ex Ussr countries. Besides that you mentioned amazon, that's pretty awesome. Do you do also PPC optimization for amazon as well?

Reza: Yes, actually Artem, as you mentioned, we are as a cross platform, we are able to optimize google like search shopping display, Microsoft ads by previously Bing, Yandex and amazon.

Artem: Oh, cool. Cool, cool. By the way, you probably heard right that google made some of the google shopping functionality now free. So basically you can get some, maybe basic visibility, right in google shopping now for free, but some people have a little bit more some, little bit of misunderstanding. They kind of thing that maybe it's not completely free, that's not the case. It's just that some sliver of visibility that they offered to you for free and everything else you will have to get by still paying for clicks. Good, good. So if we talk about bid up humiliation tools in general. So a lot of people I think are still in the dark when it comes to bid optimization tools. To be honest, since we have been working in Russian market, we have been kind of familiar with Yandex and there's a lot of optimization tools around Yandex. And it seems to be that Russians are really, really keen on getting everything out of the marketing budget. So, I’ve been, familiar with the different tools that are, there in place, but in terms of maybe google AdWords and google ads in general, I kind of always had that idea that it's kind of like big players kind of tool. So when we talk about bid optimization I kind of think right away, is that bid optimization is something that I would use a software, external software when I have squeezed everything out of my native campaign. So when I have done everything I can do, and now I need that extra kick, or maybe I want to reduce amount of manual work. So I want to automate my process. So for example, if I would be a marketing agency, and I have like 200 accounts, for example, then automatically I’m thinking, okay, there's got to be a better way than using AdWords editor and stuff like that. There must be something much better. So when you think about bid optimization, when should I care about it? At what point should I be like, okay, there must be a better tool for this.

Reza: So again, that's a very good point. Basically the main consuming part of advertising is bidding. So if we have automations in house or even for the agency, they use their automation, then there's software we're able to save their time as a one fact. And on the other hand, they are also able to get the right results. So as you know, as machines sometimes working better than the human, but it would be also even better with the control of the human mixturing with the machine. So this is something AdSpert will able to let the users to be able to also use the automations on the one hand, save their time, and also give them also the, all of the function, the end reports that they are able to monitor everything. And then based on the time that they save, they can focus on some other part of that, like optimizing their content, optimizing their pictures of their ads and so on and so forth.

Artem: Okay. That sounds good. So, but again I think that's very good overview in terms of the benefits of the bid optimization tool, but from the advertiser perspective, when should I care and when should I consider using bid optimization tool. Could have been the case where I’m, for example, working in a really competitive space and I need some optimization tools [08:58 inaudible] get some traction, optimize conversion, would it be once I moved past maybe a few hundred euros in daily budget and I’m like, okay, now I’m starting to have a really big budget or a medium sized budget, I should think about optimization tools. Like at what point should I be like, hey, I need to think about options that I have for optimizing bids.

Reza: So basically, we would suggest that whenever you create your campaigns and you have at least some conversions, it's better to use some solutions such as AdSpert for it to be able to optimize those. And then software will automatically be able to find out the right keywords, such as the relevant keywords, and also find out the optimum bids to be able to spend your money on the right direction, to get as much conversion as possible, and also experience it in terms of getting more data and optimize it. So basically just if it wants to be super simple from the first point, when you create your campaigns and at least you have some conversions, you're able to use the automation solution such as us.

Artem: So, but let's say if I have $3, campaign, $300, maybe not $3, but let's say $300, marketing campaigning in AdWords, something really basic. Should I bring heavy tools like biding optimization there? What would you say? With AdSpert you're like, come on Artem from the day one, like marketing budget over [10:36 inaudible] you've got to start working with that. But of course, but when would be, kind of like natural time to start thinking about paying you guys.

Reza: Yes, that's true. That's again it's again, up to the advertisers. There's definitely, okay if someone has a $3 as a budget is not cost effective for them to use the software. It's basically whenever it's going to be cost effective when they pay for a fees to us. And then we are also able to save their time and also save their budget and also improve their ROI and also the revenue. Then they can use some kind of bid optimization tool such as us, and because at least that at the end of the day, we are not going to be free. So they have to also pay to us. So basically, they have also some budget at least to be able to optimize. And also based on other KPIs that I mentioned...

Artem: You're very diplomatically correctly saying that, like anytime, any point, but if you think about it from the perspective of practicality if I have a few grand that I spent a month and I have an ecommerce store, let's say I’m working in a very, very tough space. So let's say I’m selling face masks, face masks are now like going like hotcakes. I mean, I checked the amazon's statistics for like past month and in the USA, there are a few sellers who sell over, I think, close to $2 million worth of mask every month, since, the situation has been progressing and so forth. So obviously people are going to do a lot of optimization in order to, get a lot more clicks, get better conversions and stuff like that. So if you think about it from my understanding and understanding, working with biding optimization tools, I think when you have something like e-commerce, when you see actually the real conversion value, you see conversion right away, that's where you kind of benefit the most, maybe from biding optimization because the system has a lot more data to work with, it has conversion data, but it also has conversion value data. So it knows kind of like, okay, there are many conversions of small value. That's not as good as having few bigger value conversions. And then I think, to be completely honest I think bid optimization kind of makes sense when you have a, like a large campaign or you have an ability to increase budget. So you don't have to start with a huge budget, but you have ability to increase budget once bidding optimization software says like, hey, here, this thing, this thing is working, it's bringing a lot of cash to us and you're able to kind of like push forward and increase the budget and then reduce when it doesn't make sense and kind of do the jumps.  So for me personally, I think bid optimization makes sense there. And also, I’ve seen obviously agencies and big companies. I know that you guys work with a Finnish company called polar. They sell a lot of cool watches and unfortunately, I don't have my polar watch on me right now. It would have been a really good, really good, kind of like, hey, you know, polar. But they probably have a lot of campaigns, in different countries. They have multilingual campaigns and so forth. So obviously it makes sense cause they have multiple countries managing their own campaigns, then they have HQ campaigns most likely and so forth. So for them, it obviously makes sense. But from your perspective, who would you feel is like the ideal customer for you guys who would benefit the most? Is it like the bigger company with many accounts or is it the ecommerce website operating in a very competitive market or something in between?

Reza: Okay, let me correct my sentence. Like what you mentioned. So basically, we have to divide it in two sections. The first one, when someone is a very beginner and they would like to spend a very amount of money, then he has to think about if paying for the software is cost effective or not. But on the other hand, we have also some clients such as polar, as you mentioned, or some other clients that they have also some other campaigns which are up and running, but they would like also to create new campaigns and with the new product. And they would like also put the money on some new product. So it means we do not that have the historical data for those campaigns, but anyhow, our software has ability to optimize those as well, and then try to generate also the, basically the data and to be able to find the right optimum dates and also the right keywords. So basically again, it's going to come to being as a cost-effective part, and we are currently, we are working with the SMBs and also enterprises. So we are fit to any kind of sector, as you mentioned. And it's going to also, when they have a large amount of campaigns and large amount of keywords, which they have to manage is bringing more benefits, which is correct because it's going to be again, [16:09 inaudible] exactly, exactly. And also is easier to use, that's correct. But anyhow, as a fully scalable software, it's able to optimize the small amounts and also big amounts and also big accounts. Just as an example, we are working with some agencies, as you know, agencies have the different type of customer with different range of the customer. So they have the small clients, they have also big clients and somehow, they use us for some of their big clients and they add also this many, many small accounts, which they have to monitor on a daily basis, which is difficult for them with a small budget, but anyhow, they can also optimize it with us.

Artem: Okay, cool. So lot of good ideas on how to use your software. And obviously you're making a good case for maybe a smaller enterprise and maybe even agencies or bigger companies. Can we actually see them in action in some way, because it's all words and all benefits and so forth, but from my practical perspective, how does it work? Is it the windows software I download? Is it an application that I use? Is it the web application? Do I have to like, like how would it work? And also, do you provide software only, or is there some service at attached to the software so that you are actually helping me optimize my campaign?

Reza: So basically this is a kind, based on the license that they can type the login account and then just login and how they can connect is like a plug and play. They just easily connect their account to the API. And then we pull the data to our software. Easily they can set a goal and then the software will optimize that. It's not only software. We have also services, which we call it as a client [18:17 inaudible] manager to dedicate it to each accounts and try to help them to optimize and keep the performance on the level that they want. And if something goes wrong, then our team will also inform the clients. This is a kind of a hand to hand working to be able to try to help them to get to achieve their goal. That's how it works.

Artem: So basically if I translate kind of like sales feed, so basically you have self-service model for a smaller customers or customers who are technically like savvy. And they're like, okay, I know what I’m doing. Just get out of my way, give me the tool, let me work. And then you have additional added value services for customers who don't have time, or they don't have the knowhow, but they are willing to spend a little bit of their budget on additional services in order for example, to get started or something like that.

Reza: So that's correct, but basically, we will help them in terms of, again, the optimizations for the campaigns. So we are not at this stage to also for example as an agency provider to create campaigns for them to basically create ads for them. Whenever they created all of their campaigns specifically for google then, and start optimizing, then we have the additional services to working with them on the accounts to be able to help and keep the performance on the right level. And if they have some other questions in terms of our software or in terms of the campaign, they can also get back to our team and then they help them. So we have two options.

Artem: But you focus on the optimization part. So basically that's your focus, no matter if it's software or if it's additional consulting services that you provide, you're still focused on optimization part of things. So you don't go and analyze landing page and you're like, hey, we have cool ideas for marketing campaign. You don't do that. You kind of work with the numbers. When numbers start to look bad, you're like, hey, this is what we can do. This is what we can tweak and turn the knobs and so forth. And when I don't know what I should optimize, you may be also can come in and say like, hey, we looked at your numbers and this is the areas we would focus on in terms of optimization. So I can get some maybe ideas from you as well. If I don't know where to optimize. Obviously, it costs something, but do you have like a free trial or something that we can use so that we can test. I have an ecommerce store myself. So I will be really interested to see what I can squeeze out of, my marketing campaign with your software and without it, so I can kind of compare the benefits.

Reza: Right. So yes, we will offer also the free trial. And we just made a specific, a promo code for this podcast. Yes. And I can also tell the promo code, which is AdSpert2105.  So all of the people who are interested and also watch this video, they can also sign up and also do take their free trial.

Artem: How long is free trial?

Reza: 30 days.

Artem: That's generous. I think, that is generous. Because obviously like two weeks, maybe it's too short because you don't have enough data maybe, but I think 30 days is like a pretty long period.

Reza: Exactly. This is the best time actually we can, the users can track how our software is efficient and compare with the data that they had or the results that they had in the past 30 days. So they can do also the comparison and see the improvements.  If we have also some case study, which is available on our website, which is www.AdSpert.net, or we can also provide some other case studies directed to them when they have signup.

Artem: Good, awesome. Sounds really good. So can we get a slice of that software now, in the video, can you share your screen? If you have a few moments. It would be really nice to maybe see a demo or something, because obviously there are many different tools in the market, for bid optimization. And obviously you guys have your own advantage, your competitive edge in some things, but also in many cases, I think ease of use is very important when it comes to bid optimization tools. If it's easy to use, then people are more likely to use it. And I have seen, especially software made for Yandex. I have seen some crazy interfaces, like really bananas, they are really cool, but I feel like I need to have an engineering degree in many disciplines to just understand how it works. So it'd be really nice to see because we know each other previously from other engagements, but when you have demoed the software to me, at some point, I thought that, wow, first thing that I kind of felt that is different a bit, is that it's pretty simple to understand.

Reza: Great. Yes, I can share my screen to show you, as you mentioned that yes, some of the tools are quite complicated to use, but our solution is very easy to use. And then also I’m really intuitive, as I told you also, the connection is also not that much difficult. It's like plug and play, they just connect their account and they will see the data in two minutes. So give me a second to share my screen.

Artem: Don't show anything too confidential.

Reza: Yes, sure. Yes, sure. But it would be nice if you'd give me the possibility to share my screen.

Artem: I think it's still restrictive. Let's make a host... I don't know. Let's see. So I think now you're a host, and you should be able to show us your screen. There we go. Okay. I see wonderful graphs. So that's good already. So basically the way that I understand it is you guys basically have a web service and I register. And once I register, I give access to my AdWords. For example, if I’m working with AdWords, I give access to my AdWords account via API, which means at any point I can disable the access. If I decide to not continue with the trial for example, or I can connect multiple accounts. Maybe if my license permits it, I can connect maybe additional data and so forth. Can I run optimization for multiple channels? So can I do AdWords, Yandex and amazon at the same time?

Reza: Exactly this is [25:22 inaudible]. Also, you can also add the [25:25 inaudible] mcc, and you can add also mcc, which most of the agencies connected their accounts and they get also the list of their clients. As an agency or direct expenditures, if they're working with a freelancer or they are working with some other, they have also given them the other access with the limitations to download their users. They can connect all of their accounts like amazon, google. We have some customers who are also selling on amazon and they have also googled ads, so they can monitor everything on one place. As a cross platform, we are optimizing all of their accounts and in the very near future, we are able to split their budget based on the channel that they are able to get as much convergence and as possible, or even as much revenue as possible. Our, one of the USP, which I need to mention is profit optimization.

Artem: So that's basically more for ecommerce, right?

Reza: Exactly. When they have the conversion value, we are also able to optimize, for the profit optimization, they need to provide us their data, which like cost [26:32 inaudible] on other extra costs. And also the pricing and software will dynamically calculate and optimize their profit based on the ads spent, like ad spent. And then we will, again, we spend the money on the right directions, which they are able to get the highest value.

Artem: Okay. All right. Cool. Cool, cool, cool.

Reza: Just also a quick introduction. This is our performance [27:02 inaudible]. I hope I speak enough to show you, as you asked, I can also tell you, you can also connect, when you connect your account you are able to see all of their accounts here on the right top corner. You can click on one of their accounts and then you will able to monitor the performance of the accounts.  So basically you are able to monitor the performance on the account level, based on all campaigns, you can able to monitor based on the each campaign, or if you group your campaigns, you are also able to monitor and also decide which campaign is relevant, or you should pause it, you should continue, you should increase your ads and so on and so forth. You can also still select the time range. You can compare your time without, for example, in this case all the time with AdSpert and previous period, which going to be a case for trial for example.

Artem: Oh yeah, that's cool. So you can see like before and after AdSpert.

Reza: Exactly. And for example, this case, the wide area, which means that all the time with AdSpert and the gray area means the previous time that you'd compare. And you can also download all these graph specifically for agencies, which they would like to report it to their clients. It's easy to use for direct spenders when they need to report it to the c levels, they can also download this and report to them, which is going to be helpful. We have also the relevant KPIs, which is conversion per day, cost per conversion, ROI and CRR. As a machine learning technology, as I mentioned, they need to also do, when they connect their account, we need to learn their historical data to be able to find the right bids and also the right keywords. We provide the also the, what AdSpert has done on their accounts and how many activities we have done and how many results we have generated based on our activities as a nutshell, under performance monitor, and last but not least on this page, they can also see and compare the results. During this time range. So as I told you, it's very easy to use. It's really, really intuitive. They have also more flexibility in terms of selecting the campaigns that they would like to optimize with us, which it means when they connect their account, it doesn't mean they have to optimize whole of the account. They can decide which campaign they would like to optimize. Artem, instead of talking too much, I would be happy to ask you if you have any questions so far.

Artem: Of course, I have too many questions. So first of all, can I optimize non-English campaigns? Is there anything that machine learning does, for example, better in with English campaigns compared to obviously a lot of people are focusing on English language since most of the customers in the world in general use English, but other languages, as you know, are growing in market share. And especially in developing countries, there is a lot of opportunity for PPC optimization. And as we mentioned before, like Yandex and so forth. So, is it language specific, the optimization system that you have, or would it work for any language?

Reza: It's actually works for all of the language. So currently we have customer in Russia with the Russian language. We have also customer us as the English area. We have from other countries like Netherlands, like Germany. So we do not have any restrictions in terms of any language and also in terms of any currency. So for example, if they connected to their accounts from euro or Danish crone, or dollar. So we are also able to see it here.

Artem: Okay, cool. So let's see the optimization part of things. So for example, I connected my account. Great, I have, for example, AdWords, let's go with the easiest. I connected AdWords, now my campaigns are imported into the system. Maybe I waited a few days so that the information is gathered. I have my google analytics, I connected it to ad words, conversion data is flowing nicely. I have already maybe like a hundred conversions, what's next?

Reza: So what's next. So, first of all, when specifically, if you only want to start trial, as I told you, you can also select what campaigns you would like to optimize with us, which we give you more flexibility. It's again, it's super easy. If you keep it as a green with the white tick means we are optimizing. If you don't want, you can also pause it.

Artem: Yeah. So basically, I can dip my toes into the water, like pretty easily and just see one campaign versus other campaigns. So I can see what they were able to do, in one campaign. And if I like it, I can then select all the campaigns.

Reza: Exactly. Exactly. The second topic is whenever you have also the new campaigns, we automatically optimize it if you let us to do it. So which means you shouldn't be definitely worried when you create the campaigns for some customer, if it's going to be optimized by software, if you should, again, login, you have this option to select and choose.

Artem: But the one point, just to be clear, I still continue creating campaigns over, at AdWords. If I use AdWords editor, or if I use mcc account or just the regular AdWords account, creation part of things still happens over at that kind of space with those tools that I’m used to. So I don't create new campaigns. I don't work with new texts; I don't upload banners or anything like that. And yeah, just another question before you even had time to answer this one, you don't work with banners and all the fancy stuff like YouTube. Do you focus only on text-based campaigns or do you work with a whole range of, for example, what ads, offers in google ads?

Reza: Okay. So basically on google, we are able to optimize google search, google shopping, and also google display.

Artem: Oh, google display as well. Right. Okay, cool. Cool. And what about other platforms?

Reza: So for Microsoft, and also Yandex, for Yandex we can also able to optimize search and also images. But actually we are going through the Yandex metrica and Microsoft ads and for amazon we are able to optimize sponsor brand, sponsored product for keywords and also [33:41 inaudible].

Artem: That's cool. That's very cool. All right. So and yeah, you already kind of like answered my question by nodding really aggressively when I said that you still continue creating ads over, at AdWords or at Yandex and so forth. So basically, I use your software only for optimization and reporting. That's pretty much what I use it for. Everything else happens with the tools that I’m accustomed to already. So I don't have to, transfer to you guys, when it comes to creation. So I only do optimization. Cool. So what's next. I imported my data. I chose the campaigns that I want to optimize. What's next?

Reza: The other values before jumping on the setting the goals is like, you do not need to change and restructure all of the campaigns. So our software is working with the current structure that you have even on amazon, or even on other, some other platforms, such as google or Yandex. And like for example, for amazon, which we can also optimize amazon vendor account and also amazon seller account with the current structure that they have. They are not going to also bring more tasks for them.

Artem: So you basically, you don't touch my structure once I set it. What's what you are wanting to say. Yeah. Cool. Cool. That's very good. So you don't mess my account up.

Reza: Exactly. Exactly. We will give you also some tips in order to improve your performance in future, but we will not change anything.

Artem: Alright. Very good.

Reza: So, and basically any select the proper campaigns that you would like to optimize with us, then you can move to goal and promotion and you're able to select the right campaigns and write goals. So basically if you have the same goal for different, basically same goal for the different campaigns, you can group all those campaigns and put it in the one performance group, which we name here as a hit. So you name it as you wish, and then you can also select the right goal. So we have five different goal here, which is cost per month goal, cost per conversions or ROIs, CRR and autopilot.

Artem: What is autopilot? That's the first question that I have. Cause that sounds way cool.

Reza: Yes. Means profit optimization.

Artem: Profit optimization. Okay, but you know, like I think you know, at least the AdWords, well, google ads and obviously some, most other mature PPC platforms, they already have ROI optimization and they have cost per conversion optimization and cost per conversion or target conversion cost is misunderstood by many because they think that it will make sure that it matches it. So, and not actually, so people set it at $1, for example, I’m willing to pay $1 for conversion. Obviously, that's not necessarily going to happen. Cause the competition could be to fierce or you don't have enough budget or whatever. But in terms of all of those goals, how does it work? So once I set different conversion, or different goals for my campaigns, what actually happens in the background and how are they different from what is already natively exists in a platform such as AdWords.

Reza: Okay. So basically software by heart is profit optimization. So whenever you are asking us to optimize the profits, so firstly, we are optimizing the profit. If you do not have, you're not an ecommerce website.

Artem: So like b2b website and I want leads or something like that.

Reza: Exactly. We are also able to optimize conversions. So again, it's step by step. So first profit, if not then revenue, if not, for example, then we come into the conversion value. We optimize the conversion. If you do not have the conversion value, we optimize conversions. So we try to get best results as we can for each goal. So for example, just to give you an example, cost per month. So if you have a 5,000 euros as a budget for all of the campaigns and you would like to get as much conversions as possible, then you just select cost per month goal. If you would like to select call CPA goal, which is, should be on the certain amount and you would like to get as much conversion as possible for that CPA goal, then you can also collect cost per conversions.

Artem: Yeah. So, what if I have like an ecommerce and I have conversion data connected, I have ecommerce data connected and everything flows nicely to AdWords, should I start with something like autopilot and let the system, you know, optimize for revenue?

Reza: So basically for autopilot [38:32 inaudible]. So you have to provide us with the cost of the goods and also the pricing, which we are able to optimize.

Artem: That's actually pretty interesting. How does that happen?

Reza: You just provide us the data and then we will set up in the software.

Artem: Oh. So basically, I can provide you like a excel spreadsheet or something with my goods and costs to me, and then you can optimize for revenue. That's pretty neat. Do you charge anything extra for that?

Reza: No.

Artem: Oh, that's cool. That's cool. And obviously you can work with the big data, right. So I can provide you like thousands and thousands of products. Okay. But if I don't have that, if I don't have that, my next option is probably to optimize for basically for revenue. Just I mean for just the amount of, for expenditure so that I want my customers to spend as much as possible on my store. That's pretty much it right. For sales value, basically.

Reza: Exactly. So, for amazon sellers, they would like to increase their sales and at the same time profit and keep the [39:42 inaudible] or a cost of ads, advertising cost of sales on the certain level. So this is something that they would like to achieve. And currently, as you mentioned, like we are optimizing polar accounts. We try to get as much sales as possible for the different regions that they have with a certain budget that they allocated to the advertise, to the ad campaigns.

Artem: Okay. So basically if we are now moving forward, once I selected my strategy that is suitable for my business and for my campaign, what's next? I chose my goal basically goal is kind of like an optimization strategy, in a way kind of.

Reza: Right. So for example, for this case, like cost per [40:25 inaudible] let's say 5000 euros and even you can also put it in a different performance group for the different quotes if you're looking for based on the strategy that you have in house, even you need to optimize a goal per campaign, you can also select it and put in the different performance group. But also put it as a single company called, which you're able to do that. It's also easy to use. Like you just...

Artem: I have a friend and he always says that, no software is easy to use unless it has drag and drop. So you kind of, you kind of make the cut. So I can drag and drop my campaigns to different groups and that way change automatically optimization strategy according to the group.

Reza: Exactly.

Artem: Okay. Let's get to the nitty gritty. Where's the optimization part?

Reza: And then when you have done, then you just need to start optimization, there is a click here and you will start off. This is a demo account. As you see, when the sign is in green and account will be optimized. It needs to be start optimizing. The good things that we offer to the advertisers, we are very transparent so they can monitor what we have done in details. So on the report log area, they are able to monitor.

Artem: It's like a change history in AdWords, right? So something similar, you can see if you have decreased bids, if you increase bids, added keyword, stuff like that.

Reza: Exactly. They can monitor everything. They can see all the bits. We can also optimize for the bid adjustment as well for the different dimensions. And we try to again, get as much conversions and revenue as possible. So they can monitor...

Artem: Yeah, no, it's really good stuff. But can you mention some of the optimization strategies that the software uses? For example, obviously if you think about traditional optimization, so what the heck is optimization anyway, when it comes to AdWords or whatever, PPC marketing campaign, basically you optimize keywords, right? You add new keywords, you remove keywords that don't work and keywords that perform better. You increase bids possibly for them in order to get maybe more visibility. Then you look at certain for example, devices and for certain devices you increase or decrease bids. So if mobile is performing poorly, you decrease bids and so forth. After that, obviously you look at the ads themselves. So traditional optimization involves creating and tweaking ad texts. So you kind of like change call to action and so forth. And there are some many other ways to optimize, but what does your software do in terms of optimization? What kind of techniques does it use?

Reza: So that's getting to the very technical questions. Our CTO will be able to answer this question, how we are optimizing and what kind of techniques we use, but actually we invented some kind of formula in house. And then we try based on the mathematical and statistical formula, which I cannot provide.

Artem: Some machine learning traditional good old automatization. So for example, obviously you do things like when you see that you can get away with a smaller bid, you reduce the bead and you see, okay, it's still bringing conversion. You do that kind of stuff. Obviously, you do automatic keyword removal. And as you mentioned before, addition, and then maybe there is some machine learning. So you do some predictions, you do kind of like predicting of what might work and so forth based on the data, maybe based on the previous data. We don't have to go too much into the strategy. I'm just a data freak myself in a way. I really like the idea of, having computer being, I guess the biggest advantage for the traditional person is that algorithm is able to optimize many, many times a day. So basically, we can, if, for example another competitor, a huge competitor has left the advertising platform for two days, the system will kind of catch it. It says like, oh, hey, we can reduce the bid. And it's still working pretty well. We can reduce the cost for that two days. So maybe two hours even, if there is an interesting window that allows us to all of the sudden increase a conversion rate and so forth by reducing still budget and so forth. So basically the machine is able to optimize 24/7. So you probably do optimizations like many, many times during a day, maybe even during, one hour you do multiple optimizations. And then I guess the machine also can roll back, which is much harder for a person. So when you test a hundred different things, if those things don't work, you can just, the system can click undo, go back to previous state and continue different tactics while the person, it will be very hard for the person to do hundred changes and then to just go back and start optimizing using different strategies.

Reza: Okay. So back to the first question is what kind of techniques we are using for optimizations, just in general, I can tell you, like we are using the information [46:04 inaudible] and also [46:06 inaudible] to optimize the ad campaigns. And then we were able to set the bids six times in a day as API led us to do it for specifically google. I can also give you a quick insight here, for example, as you see, you're able to see, the internet is not that much good today. So for example you were able to monitor during the day what time is the best, set the higher bids, or set the lower bids and also during the week. So basically you are able to set the bid six times in a day and seven days in a week.

Artem: Okay. So basically with my ecommerce store for example, for us weekends, evening pretty good. And then weekdays probably after eight o'clock, GTM +2 times on is pretty good. So your system would automatically, so I guess the big also benefit is if something happens in the behavior of my customers, the system will catch it, even if I do. So if, for example, Sunday stops being a really good day for us, the system will stop optimizing for Sunday and will try to optimize for other days that bring conversions.

Reza: Exactly. So based on the data and also based on the bids that are already set in the past, so software will predict what time of the day you are able to get the higher conversion and what time of day you're able to get the less conversion. And based on these predictions, we are able to set the right bids. So for the time that you're able to get the highest conversions with the higher bids, and whenever you get the lowest conversion, we set the lower bids in this sort of, in terms of not wasting your money.

Artem: Yeah. Yeah, of course, wasting money is a sin. So it's good that you are helping me do that, I mean, not waste money. Okay, good. So can I, like if we go to conversion again, like, do you kind of manage that automatically? Or am I able to impact it somehow? So where do I do? What was it the screen that you showed before that shows optimization strategies after I choose strategies that's it, or is there something else?

Reza: So basically whenever, just again, you set the goals and then you just hit the button, then you do not need to do anything. So software would take the rest of the task and then you just need to monitor. And whenever you have some questions, you can get back to the dedicated person related to your account. Or you can also use the support button here to ask questions and our team will come, we'll get back to the advertisers, also the users as soon as possible.

Artem: So, okay, let me get this straight. So if I have a trial and I use the coupon, so I have the trial period of 30 days, I connect my AdWords account. Let's say it's an account. It's not a new account. So let's say it's been around for a year or so. So I have a lot of data, a lot of conversions, I have many different campaigns. I connect the account here. I set the goal. For example, let's choose in the beginning I set an easy goal as possible. I just set the goal. I want maximum amount of conversions, that's it. Nothing else, nothing super deep, nothing super complicated. And after that, that's it. I just return in a week and I see, okay, how are we doing? Is it working better or is it working less? But still again, I would like to also clear a misconception that you don't create new ad texts. You don't do kind of like the copyright side of things optimization, which is obviously very important as well. I mean, if we're talking about face masks, if you're advertising face masks and unfortunately, or maybe it's very fortunate that the google and many other platforms now refuse advertising of face masks, because, a lot of people were scamming and so forth. But if I was advertising face masks before the pandemic, I would do it in a different way compared to if I do it now, and the text should reflect that, the ad text. So you don't do anything about the text, about the actual, like marketing assets, what is shown to the customer.

Reza: Okay. So we do not really optimize the text. So we are taking mainly the bid optimization part and also suggesting the right keywords, which is also cook features here. And again, one of the values, they increased their conversion and save their time because sometimes it's difficult for the people to find the right keywords, but software will be able to find right away, such as the right keywords and also for the right campaigns in the ad group. So would also such as negative keywords and it's easily they can also keep it yes, if they're happy with these suggestions and then press save and they would add it, but we will not really optimize text. We will not, exactly text itself also create campaigns and so on. And they can use the time that we save to focus on the other part, optimize it, and then the rest, leave it with us to do it.

Artem: Okay. That's very, very good. Okay, cool. Can you talk about the display optimization, because when we're talking about banners, as you probably know text-based campaigns are really effective goes when people search, especially with google, google seems to be adding more and more ads in organic search. The place dedicated for ads seems to be growing. So I guess they're trying to provide even more exposure to advertisers. So when you have textural advertisement, it's really effective because when a person is searching for something, he wants to get a solution to his problem. And at that time, if you are showing the ad, it's very effective because you are able to solve or help solve the problem, that person has very good, but display advertisements usually suffer from being really ineffective. So as you probably know, click through rate in display advertisements is really, really poor compared to textual advertisements. What kind of things are you able to do for display campaigns?

Reza: So basically for the display campaign, we are also, as we optimize the placement, yes, we optimize the placement. And just quickly on the front page, you can also see based on example, how many placement that we have optimized, how many conversions we generated.

Artem: So basically it means that for example, if I’m being shown constantly on one website, and if you see that website is not bringing conversion, but it's eating a lot of clicks, you will kind of like disable that placement and you will say, okay, we don't show our ad there because it's just not working where you receive thousand clicks, zero conversion. Let's not go there. That kind of things that you do.

Reza: Yes, right.

Artem: Okay. That's cool. And in display, there is not much else you can do. You can do optimization of maybe targeting. Do you do any of that?

Reza: Yes, we do also target and also placements. We do also retarget as well.

Artem: Yeah, sorry. Sorry. I was just going to say that you optimize targeting. So you optimize who sees the ad and you also optimize where it's shown, but probably most likely where it's not shown where it's not working as well, which is probably even more important because if you just enable basic settings in AdWords, for example, you will be shown in mobile games and stuff like that, where most likely you will have, zero opportunities for conversions, especially in if you're like in b2b sector or something similar. And what about remarketing? Is there anything you can do for me when it comes, remarketing, as you probably know, is very powerful when it comes to ecommerce abandoned checkouts, remarketing is very good in b2b as well. Do you do any of optimization for remarketing?

Reza: So we have also done some also for the remarketing stuff as well. So any kind of advertising that you're doing for the google we're able to do that except for videos.

Artem: Videos. So not yet.

Reza: Not yet. We are really happy to do that, but the API that we got through the video is a little bit weak, so we are not able really to optimize. So that's why we have decided to not optimize.

Artem: Yeah. You cannot provide good results probably because of the API, so you don't want to disappoint customers and, so forth. Okay, cool. Cool.

Reza: I would like to add something here, which is like, Germans company try to deliver the good and high-quality products. So that's why whenever we are not able to deliver this result, so that's why we will not offer these services and not commit to that.

Artem: Yeah. We forgot to mention that you are a German company, but obviously I guess everybody with a keen sees that it's www.AdSpert.de, so Germany and you're a German company. So if we think based purely on stereotype, I assume you drink beer at the office and you really focus on the quality.

Reza: Exactly. But basically on the Friday evening we try to drink the beer, but not evening time because we have to take [56:13 inaudible]. Of their performance.

Artem: Yeah. So you can only drink once you kind of like signed off, so the performance doesn't suffer at work.

Reza: Exactly. Exactly.

Artem: By the way, I don't drink alcohol myself, but I enjoy nonalcoholic beer. Do you have a lot of non-alcoholic options in Germany? Is it gaining popularity?

Reza: Yes. We have also different range of the nonalcoholic beers. And I think most of the companies are currently producing those beers as well.

Artem: That's cool. Because I’m based in Finland and if you want the alcohol in your beer, you have like 400 different options, but if you want non-alcoholic options, you have like two, three options, measly options and it's rarely any good. So I always think that there is untapped market there for people like me, who just basically enjoy the bitter taste.

Reza: Yeah. So you are very welcome to come to berlin and also connect your account to optimization, set the [57:23 inaudible] in AdSpert and just have a nonalcoholic beer together.

Artem: That sounds great. That sounds great. Thank you very much Reza. It's been a pleasure. I really enjoyed spending time with you today and going over your offering, I think it's a really cool tool, but of course I think the best way to experience it is to try it for free. And if it works out, if optimization is able to achieve good results, basically after that they can see if a paid account is worth, the value that it has for them. And that's it pretty much, it's been a pleasure. I hope we will be able to meet once this whole horrible situation is over. And we have finally able to enjoy uncomfortable flights, and really small space that is allocated for us when we travel. But I would love to come to Germany and maybe I can give you a ring and we can maybe enjoy that beer that you mentioned.

Reza: Exactly but thank you so much Artem for your time and also inviting for this podcast. Really appreciate it. And thanks for having me here.

Artem: Thank you very much.

Reza: Thanks a lot. I hope we will see all of you guys in AdSpert.

Artem: Thank you. Take care. Bye bye.

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